KMFDM's Sascha Interview

8/29/07 and 8/31/07

Sascha of KMFDM spoke to STUBBLE’s Ken Zebbyn from the state of Washington where he currently resides and is in the process of moving back to Germany. Unfortunately Sascha had to make the call twice, due to ineptness and/or technical difficulties on our side. He was kind enough to do so for the sake of his fans. When you do things twice you gain and lose. What was lost was a more detailed explanation on his relationship with En Esh and why En is no longer with KMFDM. Also lost was a more colorful commentary on NIN, deeper info on MDFMK and Sacha’s financial state at the time preceeding it. But most of all was when Sascha referenced seeing friends he has not seen in a while I asserted myself as one and he said No or something to that effect. It was a classic nyuk nyuk for me at least.  

Anyway, Here’s what he had to say on the reinterview.

Sascha:  Hello?

KZ:  Hi, it’s Ken. Sorry about what happened.

Sascha:  What happened?

KZ:  When I listened to the tape all I could hear was me. Sascha:  Oh shit. KZ:   We have the problem fixed now…Sascha:  That’s all right.
KZ:  OK, so I have my questions from the last time. The opening song of your new CD has sound bites and you referencing the band’s name. You’ve done it a lot on different records, and you’ve been able to do it for years, without it sounding stale or lame. What are your comments regarding using the band’s name?
Sascha:  Well, like I said, we learned it from the old school hip hop bands to name check ourselves just so that people on the dance floor would know what band was playing, they wouldn’t have to go ask the DJ, or on the radio or whatever.
KZ:  That’s a good way to do it. When I go to Wikipedia and type in Industrial Music I don’t get KMFDM, but when KFMDM does come up it’s under the classification Industrial – do you think you get sufficient respect from the industry in general?
Sascha:  Well, I don’t give a shit about any respect from the industry because the music is not made or anyone other than ourselves. Insofar as, you know if, people like it, great, if they don’t I don’t give a rat’s ass. Just go away.
KZ:  Absolutely. Going back awhile, we discussed when En Esh left the band and how that affected the band, was it a positive thing, and how did the separation come about?
Sascha:  Well, it was a long time coming and there were a lot of were many separations. En Esh sort of efficiently scaled down the amount of work that he did, after 1990, and there were records that were done entirely without him, and others where he contributed very very little. But then there were also bouts where he stepped back to the table sometimes too, so it was always like he would come and go and generally there was no collaborator except for myself.
KZ:   On a more recent note, was it something you really wanted to do or was there any kind of pressure to switch the name after it was announced that the original band had broken up?
Sascha:  It wasn’t like the situations in other bands where people just get fired or have these horrific breakups. This was like a more gentle and thoughtful way to put the thing to sleep, at least for the time being, and give everybody the opportunity to see for themselves what it was that they really wanted to do, because nobody in KMFDM was  happy with each other at the time anymore.  
KZ:   Then when you did come back you changed the band’s name by reversing the letters so it was MDFMK and ending up on a major label - what was that experience about?
Sascha:  I desperately wanted to continue my career; I wasn’t getting ready to stop doing music, so in a sense to stay close to the name KMFDM by reversing it was something I felt KMFDM could absolutely afford to do. We were able to change course a little bit and got a very nice record deal and publishing contract, and then went on tour and had a hell of a blast.
KZ:   You had mentioned it’s never really been an interest for KMFDM to be the next flavor of the month - since the beginning the band has been an incorruptible art form. I usually ask musicians about influences that you might have had, but I don’t think you follow anyone else’s drum, and never have. Why do you think it was that you never shot towards the mainstream?  
Sascha:  I spent probably more time and effort putting the brakes on KMFDM skittering into some sort of mainstream, popular thing than anything else. It was always important for me to maintain my integrity and to be without compromise when it comes to how I to want to pursue my business and want my band to be presented and seen. So I made various efforts and attempts to piss on their TV ratings and prevent KMFDM from getting burnt up in the industry where you see how people love to eat their own; first they get stylized into being some sort of god, and then they get torn down and cut up and eaten. So, that was never my intent. I’m very much in for the long run.
KZ:   In terms of Industrial music or the music press, when I type Industrial music in Wikipedia, instead of Ministry, or you guys, or Skinny Puppy, what comes up is Nine Inch Nails. Were you ever involved with them, or do you follow what they do?
Sascha:  No, not at all. The only time that we ever had a bit of a brush was when Wax Trak commissioned Nine Inch Nails to do a remix for one of our singles, “Light.” It was one of a total of nine remixes of the “Light” single. 
KZ:   Was that something that you objected to?
Sascha:  No, I didn’t object to it, I just consider them a pop band that came later and rode the wave that others had set in motion. KMFDM, when we first came to the United States, this whole term ‘Industrial’ was brought up in regards to what we were doing and we were just, like, shaking our heads. I mean, Industrial music is neither KMFDM nor Ministry nor Nine Inch Nails. Industrial is a very small and very specific genre of music. The name itself was formed I believe by Throbbing Gristle in the late 1970s, “Industrial Music For Industrial People,” and there are very few bands that I could think of off the top of my head that are truly Industrial bands:  Throbbing Gristle, Psychic TV… most of the others are not really Industrial at all. –  locked into the Industrial kit. In the U.S. I guess it’s really a misunderstanding. Other than SPK, and a few others. Not to be confused with what you call Industrial in the States.
KZ:   Overall with the band’s success, obviously being highly regarded and having a long history, are you satisfied with things?
Sascha:  I’m never satisfied. I never rest on the laurels, kind of always reach further and strive for more.
KZ:  On the new album, what’s most interesting is that it’s more of a departure because on this album it’s collaborations between each of the band members versus an album where the person in charge, yourself, would be predominantly in control. How did the idea for the album come about, and what’s the difference in how you feel about making an album that way as opposed to other albums?
Sascha:  Albums have to be made, it’s just part of KMFDM. If we don’t make an album something just doesn’t feel right. The thing I wanted to change, on the last couple of albums, was to get the other musicians more involved in the actual process of writing the music and coming up with stuff. For a couple of reasons, one of which is that it takes a long time for one person to lay the groundwork and basically be a track starter. That was one of the basic things that I wanted and my approach was to get everyone to write a song. The outcome really showcases the variety of styles among the five members.
KZ:   Is that what you’d be most proud about, is it the participation, or is it that you’re getting to hear the quality of everyone’s work coming together? It sounds KMFDM. It’s just a different KMFDM album.
Sascha:  Yes, that’s the same with every album that we put out, it’s a snapshot of the time when it was made. You could never say “This is my best work ever,” but you could say “This is my best work to date.”
KZ:   Have you set goals for yourself, or are you setting goals now?
Sascha:  For me it’s more of a challenge, the goal-setting, there’s no final destination. Birth, work, death.
KZ:   Are you hoping to leave a legacy for KMFDM?
Sascha:  Absolutely, yes. One of the ideas was always to make a band, before we became KMFDM, where it doesn’t even matter who are the members. Leadership could be passed on to another generation. I will put down the Captain’s hat when I find whoever can fill my shoes.
KZ:  The last release prior to the new album was the Ruck Zuck remix CD. What is it with remix CDs compared to regular CDs, in your opinion?  And as far as remixing itself,
how is that different 15 years ago and today?
Sascha:  Well, in the early to mid-90s I was doing a lot of work for people, remixing, working with a lot of serious artists, from heavy metal to things more related to what KMFDM was doing, and as I result I just kept popping out a lot of remixes left and right because it’s just something I was doing a lot. At some point I kind of stopped when it became obvious that there’s no real market for singles any more due to internet piracy there’s hardly a market for anything at all any more. What changed in the mean time was that nowadays the remixes are done by other people so I think it’s interesting to release stuff that other bands do with one’s own material. The way it went in the past was you’d get paid good money to do a remix for a band. Nowadays there’s no money in it at all, it’s basically just trade releases. 
KZ:   Was that more or les how this last remix CD came about?
Sascha:  Pretty much, yeah.
KZ:   If I was to browse your collection, your CD player or MP3 player right now, what are you listening to?
Sascha:  Well, I don’t have an MP3 player. I’m listening to the remastered CD of CAM a German Band from the late 60s and 70s, and I’ve got this very eclectic collection of stuff that people have sent me, demo tapes. And then some of it is really really excellent, one of my favorite bands called Harsh Realm, a Japanese outfit – oh, they’re very interesting.
KZ:   When’s the next time you’re planning on playing again, is it Europe, is it here?
Sascha:  We’re planning to do a bunch of European shows in 2008, and we’re planning to come back to the United States in 2009. I’m currently in the process of moving my studio to Hamburg, Germany, and I’ll be working for at least the next couple of years out of Europe.
KZ:  With you moving back to Germany, is that because the time is right for you personally, or do you see things differently in Germany since you left? Obviously a lot has changed politically and socially during the life of the band.
Sascha:  I’ve actually been entertaining the idea of going back to Europe for quite some years now. There’s the constant alternating between the studio recording and touring, and it hasn’t really afforded me any time. We’ve recently realized that the past few years we have toured so much that it’s almost fair to say that we have over-toured in certain areas of the market. Taking a break from the road for at least a little time affords me to put my personal plans into motion. It also gives audiences and promoters a respite to wholly and thoroughly enjoy KMFDM the next time around. We have become so much of an institution it’s almost taken for granted that we’ll just come by and play this city and our ticket prices are super low and our merchandise is super cheap. It seems like everybody needs a little pause to appreciate everything again.
KZ:   I think your fan base is extremely loyal and diverse – it spans generations now - do you notice that when you go to shows?
Sascha:  Sure. The age range of the audiences goes about from 15 to 50. People younger and older than that once in a while as well. People literally go with their children to attend KMFDM shows.
KZ:   That is phenomenal. When you had the MDFMK tour, the big robot you had on stage in Boston. How much of an investment was the robot, and how hard was it to maintain?
Sascha:  It sucked the coffers dry and made the entire tour basically totally unlucrative. It was so expensive not only to make it but actually to maintain it – it was three hundred dollars just for food.
KZ:   Where is its final resting place now?
Sascha:  Its final resting place is near Bolinas, off the Californian coast, in a barn. Meanwhile I’m told it learned to walk
KZ:   So we might see it around if we’re in the area?
Sascha:  I’ve had it with him. I still have his little brain in a suitcase down in my basement.
KZ:   With the cost I guess the odds of him coming back out are pretty low?
Sascha:  Either we hit the jackpot or not at all.
KZ:   I thought I saw him play guitar that night in Boston. How was that on the guitars?
Sascha:  Well, he tried to play guitar, but he basically shredded them and we had to find new guitars every couple of days.
KZ:   And you figure with machines you save money. Not always, I guess.
Sascha:  For sure.
KZ:   Out of all the years and tours you’ve done, there’s gotta be some experiences that, maybe weren’t fun when you went through them, but things you remember and laugh at now, the history of KMFDM. Could you share one of them with us?
Sascha:  One time in Salt Lake City we got a replacement for a broken bus. The bus that came was green, old, and it was called The Pickle. As we’re heading out of Salt Lake in the early morning hours, the driver is telling us the fun story about The Pickle where, on his maiden voyage, the Pickle bus broke down and Aerosmith, who the bus belonged to at the time, were seen pushing the bus down the road. Just as he was finishing the story, there was a massive explosion and the bus started going down like an airplane. We got out and saw the engine had exploded and was about a quarter mile down the road. There was this huge black streak of oil bubbling down the road all the way back to the bus. So we started pushing the bus and making jokes about Aerosmith, and very soon it became clear to us that there was no chance that we would push that thing anywhere. Some scouts went out and we saw this little town in the distance that was Winnemucca, Nevada. They had one taxi and it took about half a day to get everyone from the bus to the hotel in town. There was one hotel, one casino, and three whorehouses. It took us three days for them to fix the bus, by the time we left we were on a first name basis with every inhabitant of Winnemucca, and we had blown our entire money.
KZ:  I appreciate your sharing a story like that with us. Is there any chance of a book down the road?
Sascha:  Well, the 25th anniversary is just sort of appearing on the horizon and yes, the book is going to be in the mix.
KZ:   Awesome! Obviously with the approach to the music that you’ve had with KMFDM for years, it’s always been more aggressive, and I guess at one point your name got dragged into the whole Columbine thing, and yet because of the media and who’s more in the spotlight, Marilyn Manson gets to wear that badge more, I don’t know if it’s a badge of honor, to be affiliated with it. How was that experience for you personally, knowing that the name of the band got associated with the whole situation?
Sascha:  It was very strange. I was driving in the car, near Seattle, and I got a call from my manager and he said “Get in front of the TV right now.” And I’m like, “What’s going on?” and he said “I don’t really know, but something’s happening here.” So when I got home I remembered the call and I turned on the TV and I saw my face on CNN. I was like, “What???” And then it took an hour or so to piece together what had happened with the school shooting. And that one of the shooters had a web site on which he had pasted together a sort of manifesto that was entirely consisting of lines taken from a variety of KMFDM songs. So we were implicated, as you know, as the impetus for the killing and I just thought, you know, “Uh oh, this is not gonna be fun, at all.” A couple of frantic moments followed where all possible contrabands – anything that could be construed as contraband in any way, shape, or form was brought out of the house, and we basically hunkered down waiting for the FBI to show up. The next day the phones were absolutely crazy, with Dan Rather calling in and wanting KMFDM to go on the air and basically make a stand and defend – quote/unquote – ourselves, and I was just like, “Fuck this.” First of all, there is no connection. Secondly, it’s just another kind of thing where someone gets sacrificed for the media. Then I put out a press release that the media is wrong and we’re not condoning violence, we’re German not Nazis, and whatever other accusations they came up with. Hair-raisingly crazy. And I suppose on day number 3 the media general kinda realized no one knew KMFDM so how can you tell your story on something that is not known? So then they shifted it to Marilyn Manson who, at the time everyone knew used to love to hate. Then there were like demurrals and outcries from the little community of the fans of the school shooters and copycats. It was just like, it followed me to this day. Every interview, like this one we’re doing now, there’s a mention of Columbine.
KZ:   Speaking of internet controversy, obviously with the new album cover there’s the whole thing about the artwork being changed.  I wonder if you could just give us your take on that.
Sascha:  The artwork was not changed per se, it was just that it was a good piece of art, with a background, that just wouldn’t work on a record cover. So we copy-pasted a piece of older art from the same artist on the background of the new image, brought it to the artist and were given approval, but for some reason the artist later revoked the approval and said that it was done without. Instead of talking to me about and – whatever - things happen and if it can’t be totally resolved between people it becomes a public issue. It’s stupid, I think.
KZ:   Well, it’s a long-standing relationship, it doesn’t seem like there’s any reason why it shouldn’t continue.
Sascha:  Honestly I don’t give a shit either way. There’s plenty of artists who work in a style similar to that – it’s not only the artist, sort of the black border around it, the lettering - you could put a can of Coca Cola on there and it would still be recognizable as a KMFDM album.
KZ:   I’m sure you have some influence on what’s being drawn, making suggestions.
Sascha:  Oh definitely. It’s just a very good example of how someone makes an elephant out of a mosquito.
KZ:   Nothing is exempt from happening in this business. Hey, I appreciate your time. With the 25th year coming up - 2009 is not far away – can you give us any idea of what’s to come, are you coming to an American tour?
Sascha:  What’s going to happen between now and the 25th anniversary is that every 2 months there will be a release from KMFDM. The Ruck Zuck type remix album is planned to be released in February 2008, then throughout the Spring we’ll see not only The Greatest Shit from KMFDM, but we will also see the re-release of all the stuff that is not yet contained on the albums, meaning all singles, all other tracks. Come 2009 there will be like you said the anniversary and touring the rest of the world – and possibility a new album in time for the anniversary.
KZ:   Great! Any final statements to the readership?
Sascha:  Don’t miss us too much.